Correspondence with the PMRA, 20-27 Aug. 2004, to clarify the PMRA position on use of household soap to control chinch bug
"The bottom line, can environmental organizations encourage individuals to use dish soap as an alternative method of physical control for chinch bugs? Yes."
From: Edith Lachapelle <edith_lachapelle@hc-sc.gc.ca>
To: <David.Patriquin@dal.ca>
Cc: [As in David Patriquins requests to PMRA]
Subject: Clarification to PMRA's statement regarding Control of Chinch Bugs
Date: Fri Aug 27 09:30:41 ADT 2004
Dr. Patriquin,
First and foremost, please allow me to extend our apologies over this
apparent miscommunication. I will attempt to clarify this issue and hope
that it will be satisfactory for everyone involved.
As you know, the PMRA administers the Pest Control Products Act (PCPA) on
behalf of the Minister of Health. The Agency also has a goal to promote
Integrated Pest Management. The Agency developed a series of Pest Notes
designed to educate the public on management of the most common pest
problem in and around the home. These notes describe the pest, their ideal
living environment, methods of prevention and of measure of infestations,
and, physical and chemical methods of control.
You are correct when you state that the Effective Control of Chinch Bug
Pest Note suggests use of the soap and flannel trap method to physically
control chinch bugs. This statement is the source of confusion.
The PMRA can promote the dish soap and flannel trap method to measure the
level of infestation and does not discourage the use of dish soap as a
physical means of control. However, due to the regulatory role of the
Agency, we cannot promote this method as a means of physical control of
chinch bugs, as this would become a pest control claim and would require
the use to be registered.
As for Liz Van Berkel's report of this past Monday, August 23, on the CBC
Maritime Noon Show, no spokesperson ever made the statement and I
paraphrase: "landscaping companies can't use diatomaceous earth and
insecticidal soaps but individuals may do so and that PMRA promotes this on
its website." I did say that lawncare companies cannot use dish soap as
this would become a product/service rendered making a pesticidal claim,
thus subject to the PCPA but individuals may use dish soap on their
properties as this is not a method that requires registration under the
PCPA. Mrs. Van Berkel misunderstood and incorrectly reported the story. In
addition, nowhere on the PMRA website do we state that individuals may use
insecticidal soap and diatomaceous earth for control of chinch bugs.
As it often occurs, it is extremely difficult to put into a sound bite the
role and function of the pest control product regulatory process to the
media. When this type of reporting occurs, the message may be distorted and
misinterpreted, as was the case with Monday's show.
The bottom line, can environmental organizations encourage individuals to
use dish soap as an alternative method of physical control for chinch bugs?
Yes. Can the PMRA promote this use? No, due to its regulatory role with
respect to pesticides.
Our Information Service provided you with details on how lawncare companies
can acquire registration to use insecticidal soaps and diatomaceous earth
on chinch bugs through our Minor Use program. We recommend they contact
their provincial minor use coordinator for an explanation of the process in
detail. This program still requires proprietary data, support from
provincial governments, and approval from the registered products'
companies.
Please advise if you require further information.
Regards,
/edith
Edith Lachapelle
Media Relations/Communications
Communications/Relations des médias
Pest Management Regulatory Agency
Agence de réglementation de la lutte antiparasitaire
Health Canada/Santé Canada
Tel: 613-736-3922
Fax: 613-736-3699
From: David G Patriquin <David.Patriquin@Dal.Ca>
To: Edith Lachapelle <edith_lachapelle@hc-sc.gc.ca>
Cc:
Subject: Clarification: Thanks!
Date: Fri Aug 27 12:29:24 ADT 2004
Aug. 27, 2004.
Dear Ms. LaChapelle
Thank you for the clarification in regard to use of household soap to control chinch bug which I received today.
I should point out that in reply to my initial inquiry to the PMRA about this issue in April, I was told very clearly that it is illegal for individuals to use household soap to control chinch bug (cf documentation in my Aug. 20 request for clarification), and this was also a factor in the confusion.
Regardless, I am obviously very pleased that the PMRA is agreeable to the promotion of household soap for control of chinch bug by individuals, and I will change the information on the versicolor website accordingly.
Of course, some cautions in use of household soaps are still advisable, as cited on the versicolor website (http://versicolor.ca/lawns/chinchNOW.html#action4), and in an IPM Alaska note on Insecticidal Soaps (http://ipmofalaska.homestead.com/files/soap.html)
In regard to your comments about having provided me with "details on how lawncare companies can acquire registration to use insecticidal soaps and diatomaceous earth on chinch bugs through our Minor Use program": I posted that information on the versicolor website in April, and personnel in the Ecology Action Centre Pesticide Permit Project have been in contact with two potential suppliers of Insecticidal Soap products for chinch bug (cf comments in a CBC Halifax Radio Noon Interview with Greg MacAskill, Aug. 20). I am not aware of any similar efforts related to diatomaceous earth, but I will encourage them.
Hopefully there will be progress in registration of soap and diatomaceous earth by next spring. It is very important that these materials do become available because (i) insecticidal soap is likely to be more effective and less potentially damaging to grass than household soaps, and (ii) it would provide an important alternative to Sevin (or other traditional types pesticides that might be approved in future) for lawncare companies and thereby allow and encourage them to actively market environmentally- and health-friendly alternatives to traditional pesticides for control of chinch bug.
Again thank you for the clarification.
David Patriquin
========================================================================
Monday Aug. 23, 2004
To: PMRA INFORSERV
cc: Greg MacAskill, Ecology Action Centre, Pesticide Permit Project
cc: Stephen King, HRM
cc: Kevin Brooks, Clean Nova Scotia
cc: Kim Garritty, CBC Radio, Halifax
cc: Helen Jones, RATE cc: Bill Ernst, Environment Canada
Re: Confusion about use of soap to control chinch bug
Hello,
I sent you a lengthy document on Friday concerning apparently contradictory information from the PMRA about use of soap to control chinch bug (cf CBC interview with PMRA rep. Edith La Chapelle on Friday Aug. 20 — not broadcast — and written responses to my inquiries in April/May 2004). I have not yet had acknowledgement of receipt of the document I sent on Friday so I am resending it. (In the past I have generally received acknowledgement of recipt of an inquiry on the same day that I sent it). I am forwarding these materials also to Stephen King (HRM) and Kevin Brooks (Clean Nova Scotia), as they were cited in the document and should have been cc'd.
It turned out that CBC did not broadcast the interviews with myself and your representative (Edith La Chapelle) on Radio Noon today, but rather Liz van Berkel made a report on them, with brief excerpts from the interviews. In that report, Liz van Berkel said (based on her understanding from the Friday interview) that landscaping companies could not use insecticidal soap or diatomaceous earth, but individuals may do so, and that the PMRA promotes that on their websiteŠand towards the end she said that individuals can take matters into their own hands and try an alternative treatment as in the U.S.
So matters seem quite confused.
I hope that you will clarify this situation while there is still time to promote use of soap by individuals, if that is indeed now permitted by the PMRA.
Thank you.
David Patriquin
========================================================================
Aug. 20, 2004
To: PMRA INFOSERV
From: David Patriquin
cc: Greg MacAskill, Ecology Action Centre, Pesticide Permit Project
cc: Kim Garritty, CBC Radio, Halifax
cc: Helen Jones, RATE
cc: Bill Ernst, Environment Canada
Re: Clarification of legality of using household soap to control chinch bug in lawns.
(This document is also attached as an rtf file, and a pdf document)
Hello, I had some correspondence with Julia Popa of the PMRA INFOSERV in April/May concerning use of soap and diatomaceous earth to control chinch bug on lawns. Recently, a representative from the PMRA made a statement that contradicted what you had told me earlier, so I am seeking some clarification.
This is a matter of some significance in Halifax Regional Municipality where, as you know, a Pesticide By-law has been implemented. Last year there were many requests for pesticide permits to treat chinch bug problems. This spring I prepared a website on Control of Chinch Bug Without Pesticides (www.versicolor.ca/lawns) in order to accurately document and highlight the alternatives to traditional pesticides to control chinch bug. It was important to clarify exactly what materials could legally be used to treat existing infestations, and hence I sent several inquiries to you, especially regarding soap and diatomaceous earth, which are permitted in the U.S. and which are often cited in Canadian publications. You sent back some very clear responses, one of which was that neither insecticidal soap or household soaps could be used for control of chinch bug, and that is the message reported on the versicolor website. Here is an extract from the correspondence of April 27/30:
Questions:
3. Is it permissible for an individual resident to use ordinary soap at approx. 2% concentration to control chinch bugs in lawns?
4. Is it permissible for a lawncare company to use ordinary soap at approx. 2% concentration to control chinch bugs in lawns?
Response:
For questions #3, 4, Ordinary Soap
Ordinary soap is not considered to be a pesticide. It is considered as
physical control method basically for monitoring purpose. This product is
not registered under the Pest Control Product Act and therefore it is
illegal to use it to control the chinch bug.
This year, in spite of less favourable weather conditions there have been many requests for permits to control chinch bug (up to 160 a day according to a CBC radio interview with Greg MacAskill today). The only materials that are registered for use against chinch bug are diazinon and sevin (carbaryl). I would like to be able to promote soap, as would the Ecology Action Centre (which is responsible for issuing permits), but, based in part on your responses to me, have not. [Others besides myself, including Kevin Brookes of Clean Nova Scotia (that handled the permit process last year) and, I believe, Stephen King of HRM staff, had a similar understanding of the regulations, i.e. that you could not use insecticidal soap or household because soap is not registered for use against chinch bug; my correspondence with you was really to confirm that is the case.]
Household Soap at 1-2% would probably be sufficient to control a majority of the situations, especially if the property owners do not have to go through a permit process to use it; at least we would like to encourage property owners to try it before applying for a permit.
Today I was interviewed by Kim Garritty of the local CBC Radio office about this matter, and repeated essentially what I had been told by you, i.e. that under PMRA regulations.
we cannot use insecticidal soap or household soap (or diatomaceous earth) to control chinch bug. After the interview with myself. a representative from the PMRA was interviewed (I did not catch her name) and in response to questions towards the end of it, she said that household soaps MAY be used by individuals to control chinch bug. (These interviews are scheduled to be broadcast on Monday).
While I heard the interview with the PMRA rep., I was not able to talk to her about the information I had been given or to question her about it as the PMRA had apparently requested not to be interviewed simultaneously with myself.
Obviously these are two quite different messages: the earlier response from yourselves stating quite unequivocally that it is not legal to use household soaps to control chinch bug in lawns, and these recent remarks in a CNC interview.
Please, could you clarify this matter: what is the official PMRA position on the legality of individuals (rather than professional landscapers) using household soap to control chinch bug?
For your convenience, I have reproduced some of the earlier correspondence below.
I am copying this letter to Greg MacAskill of EAC, which is handling the Permit process, and also to Helen Jones of RATE (Real Alternative to Toxins in the Environment), because I am feeling somewhat responsible for emphasizing to them that we cannot legally use household soaps to control chinch; also to Kim Garritty of the CBC, as she conducted the interviews I mentioned; also to Bill Ernst of Environment Canada as he has been copied in previous correspondence (and was involved in development of the By-law).
I should also point out another point of confusion which is your listing of the 'soap and flannel trap method' as a 'Physical Control' for Chinch Bug, while at the same time, apparently, stating that household soap cannot legally be used to control chinch bug.
From your website (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/pmra-arla/english/consum/chinchbugs-e.html)
Physical Control of Chinch Bugs
The soap and flannel trap method of trapping and disposing of chinch bugs can also be used as a monitoring method to determine the level of infestation.
* Put 30 mL (1 oz) of dishwashing soap in 7 L water and drench a small area of lawn, i.e., 0.2 square metres (2 square feet). A larger area of lawn can be treated by using a hose attachment. The chinch bugs will crawl to the surface of the grass to escape the soap.
* Lay a flannel sheet over the treated area and wait 10-15 minutes. The chinch bugs will crawl onto the sheet, where their feet will become trapped in the flannel nap. They can be vacuumed off the sheet or drowned in a bucket of water.
The title, and reference to treating (rather than monitoring) 'a larger area' clearly infer this technique is being advised as a method for control of chinch bug (as it commonly is in other non-PMRA references to this technique). However, in some of the correspondence (below), you wanted it referred to as a trapping method, I gather (from the context of the correspondence) because you did not want to imply that it is legal under the PMRA regulations to use household soap to control chinch.
I appreciate that the PMRA is having some difficulty dealing with 'home remedies' generally. However, surely soap should not be in the same category as home-made botanicals and the like.
Regardless of the confusion in the past, I would certainly welcome a clear statement from the PMRA now that 'household soaps may be used by individuals to control chinch bug', if in fact that is the route that is likely to be taken, or is now being taken by the PMRA. If that is not the case, then, again I am grateful for the clarification.
Thank you
David G. Patriquin
(Professor of Biology, Dalhousie Uiversity)
From Previous correspondence
Question and answers (April 27/April 30):
April 24, 2004
To: pmra_infoserv@hc-sc.gc.ca
From: David Patriquin, Biology Dept., Dalhousie University
Re: Use of soap and diatomaceous earth to control chinch bug
cc: Bill Ernst, Environment Canada (Bill.Ernst@ec.gc.ca)
I received a reply to a previous inquiry on Friday April 23, from Julia Popa so you may want to refer to that file. (The correspondence is attached below)
Thank you for the very prompt reply and the information you forwarded. It is very helpful.
I have some further questions, all of these relate to the implementation of the Pesticide By-Law in Halifax Regional Municipality in 2004.
In 2003, there was a serious chinch bug outbreak. It was concentrated in newer developments where many of the soils are sandy, thin, with low organic matter and highly prone to drought stress, which is the single most important factor stimulating chinch. Thus I have made an argument that priority should be given to cultural controls this year. Nevertheless, some outbreaks can be expected in 2004 if the weather conditions are conducive, and it is important that we have available some short term, acute control agents (other than pesticides) to deal with them.
We have some experience in the region with vacuuming to remove chinch bugs in the early stages of infestation; also, the Health Canada document you referred to advises use of a soap/cloth trap method.
These will work for limited infestations caught at an early stage. Neither will work very well for larger infestations. The only other agents, excluding pesticides, that have been commonly advised for chinch bug control are (i) insecticidal soap and (ii) diatomaceous earth.
However according the ELSE database, neither of these materials are registered for use on chinch bug.
Could you please comment on the following questions.
1. Is it illegal for an individual resident to use a registered insecticidal soap product (that does not cite chinch bug as one of the pests controlled) to control chinch bugs in a lawn? Could the resident use it at his/her own risk?
I note in a US publication the following statement:
What are the legal restrictions of using insecticidal soaps and detergents?
Any product sold for the purpose of controlling a pest is legally classified as a pesticide. They therefore fall under restrictions of the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA), as amended. One key provision of this act is that pesticides cannot be used inconsistent with label directions. Perhaps the most important feature is that pesticides, including soaps, cannot be used on crops that are not specified on the label. For example, if use on tomatoes is not permitted on label directions it is illegal to apply the product to tomatoes. In reality, most insecticidal soaps have label use directions that are broadly stated, allowing use on essentially all plants.
1b. Would the same apply here (within reason)?
2. Would it be illegal for a lawncare company to use insecticidal soap products to control chinch bugs in lawns?
3. Is it permissible for an individual resident to use ordinary soap at approx. 2% concentration to control chinch bugs in lawns?
4. Is it permissible for a lawncare company to use ordinary soap at approx. 2% concentration to control chinch bugs in lawns?
I have read in a US publication the following:
Household detergents/soaps not sold for pesticidal purposes are not regulated as pesticides. Legally they can be used on plants, at the risk of the applicator.
4b: Does the same hold here?
5. Is it illegal for an individual resident to use registered diatomaceous earth products to control chinch bugs in a lawn?
6. Would it be illegal for a lawncare company to use registered diatomaceous earth products to control bugs in lawns?
7. In the case that any one of these products (insecticidal soap, diatomaceous earth or ordinary soap) is prohibited for control of chinch bug in lawns, what procedure (if any) might a municipality pursue to obtain exceptional permission to use that product for control of chinch, and be able to complete the process by July 1, 2004?
You have directed me to several documents, but it is not clear to me which might be most appropriate:
Regulatory Directive DIR2001-05 Registration of Pesticides for Emergency Use
Perhaps the case could be made that there were some heavy chinch outbreaks in 2003, and we will need the substance(s) in question in 2004 would that be a legitimate approach?
Regulatory Directive DIR2001-01 User Requested Minor Use Label Expansion
My impression from reading other documents, and also from experience as a member of PMAC (1999-2001) that this procedure could not be completed in a matter of two months or less as would be required for use by July 1, 2004
Regulatory Directive DIR99-05 User Requested Minor Use Registration (URMUR)
My impression from reading other documents, and also from experience as a member of PMAC (1999-2001) that this procedure could not be completed in a matter of two months or less as would be required for use by July 1, 2004
Perhaps there are other procedures? Could you advise me on that? I realize that the application would have to be made by the municipality.
7. In the case that any one of these products is prohibited for control of chinch bug in lawns what procedure might a lawncare company pursue to obtain permission to use that product by July 1, 2004?
I am most grateful for your consideration of these questions. Please let me know if you will take longer than a few days to respond. Please call me at 902-4235716 if you would like to talk to me directly.
Thank you.
David G Patriquin
(Professor of Biology, Dalhousie University)
Your response:
Hello,
Here is the answer that I just received for you.
For questions #1,2, 5, 6
All the users (lawn care company, municipality or homeowner) have to follow
the label. If the label does not specify or include chinch bug as pest,
this product should not be used for that use. Basically, it is illegal to
misuse a product, to use it contrary to the label specifications.
For questions #3, 4, Ordinary Soap
Ordinary soap is not considered to be a pesticide. It is considered as
physical control method basically for monitoring purpose. This product is
not registered under the Pest Control Product Act and therefore it is
illegal to use it to control the chinch bug.
For question #7
Anyone can request an Emergency Use to PMRA. As you mentioned, DIR99-05
User Requested Minor Use Registration (URMUR) is one solution. There other
solution is asked for a label expansion for the mentioned product.
I strongly suggest that you contact your provincial minor use coordinator.
He will be able to help go through the process
Lorne Crozier
Resource Stewardship Branch
Nova Scotia Dept. Agriculture & Fisheries
Box 550
Truro, NS B2N 5E3
Tel: (902) 893-6548
Fax: (902) 893-0244
crozielm@gov.ns.ca
I hope this answers your questions!
Regards,
Iulia Popa
Your requested rewrite (which I did incorporate on the version posted on the web site, see: http://versicolor.ca/lawns/docs/questions2.html)
From PMRA INFOSERV 5/3/04
Hello,
There is an error in our answer. We were referring to the content of the fact sheet Effective Control of the Chinch Bug("Determining the level of infestation" section). Please see the following link:
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/pmra-arla/english/pdf/pnotes/chinch-e.pdf
As described in this fact sheet, dish soap is used to help to monitor the level of infestation (trapping method) and not as a physical control agent. The words "physical control agent" should not appear in our previous answer.
Thank you, to give us the opportunity to rectify the statement.
Regards,
Iulia Popa
I also asked you to review the various statements about pest control materials on the website Control of Chinch Bug Without Pesticides, which you did, and you returned some comments, however they did not include any comments on what is said there about PMRA and use of soap:
To: "PMRA INFOSERV" <PMRA_INFOSERV@hc-sc.gc.ca>
04/05/2004 11:33 Subject: RE: lawn pesticides, urgent
I have made the correction you requested.
You might want to look at the website
Control of Chinch Bug Without Pesticides
http://versicolor.ca/lawns/
If you think anything is incorrect there, please let me know.
(See especially the section on Permitted Materials where I made use of the information that you sent me).
FROM PMRA INFOSERV 5/10/04
Hello,
Thank you very much for the opportunity to comment on your website.
First Correction:
Chapter V, section 7, first sentence:
"There are ways to get exceptional permits to use products that are not registered for use in Canada"
The only way to get an exceptional permit for a product that is not registered in Canada is a Research Permit. For URMULE and Emergency, the product must already be registered, just not for the use that people would
like to have it for. URMUR is a registration in itself.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/pmra-arla/english/pubs/dir-e.html
You would have to change the sentence to:
'There are ways to get new uses registered for products that are already registered in Canada and to get Emergency permits for uses of products that are already registered in Canada.
Second Correction:
Change the second paragraph by the following line (I did not know that
information was to be used on the website. Please do not cite the
correspondence):
"It is recommended that your contact your provincial minor use coordinator
to discuss the process"
Third Correction:
Please take the following suggestion below to replace in the second paragraph, Chapter V, Section V:
"The PMRA provides a convenient way to check what products are registered for use on the site you want to treat and for the pest you want to control.
Go to the ELSE database; select "Search Else" and enter the target pest and target site in the box labelled "Search Full Contents of E-Labels"; a list of products which contain the words identified in the search text field will come up. This process will help identify products that fit your need -
the label will need to be read to ensure the product is registered for use on the site you want to treat and for the pest you want to control. Remember that pesticides must be used in a manner consistent with the directions and limitations respecting its use shown on the label. "
http://www.eddenet.pmra-arla.gc.ca/4.0/4.0.asp
All those comments are made to help you to give reliable info the interested persons.
Regards,
Iulia Popa